After that, it changed to more consumer. So I wouldnt be too picky early. [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. It seemed crazy that the real estate industry wasnt moving towards on demand. Now we have supply so the six months curve at the series B was all about users and millions of monthly users and then at the series C it was much more revenue curve. So the series B, weve done story now look at how quickly the renters are growing on the platform. Unluckily weve made some phenomenal early hires so the company that have all scaled to leadership roles, thats fantastic for retention because those people know that we could have hired from outside but we bet on them and it worked and so Zumper is a place to build theyre career not somewhere else. I say like in the first pitch to the day the money wires, theres always been around like a minimum of three months. At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Theyre both incredibly smart as are my executive team who are also like critical to fundraise where Ill go in and sell the vision often alone. It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. The company was incorporated in California, Texas, and Florida ten years ago. Alejandro: Got it. One is I wouldnt be too pressured about it too early. Great question. FUNDED EP01: How to tell a story worth $140 million dollars (Zumper) 00:00 51:07 Episode Summary Anthemos Georgiades, founder of Zumper, perfected his pitch the way most founders do: through trial and error. I mean to a point network gets you an intro but a lot of intros are 10 minute meetings where the VC immediately decides its not for them which is totally fair. At series B, you got to show product market set across the board with the revenue and then at series C, you got to show real traction and real revenue and a proper P&L. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs. Its a Greek name, British accent. Culture is everything and so investing in people making sure I as the CEO spend a lot of time as much as possible with people who dont report to me is absolutely critical and that is ultimately like the fabric on how most companies are run. Look how quickly our revenue are scaling. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. It was kind of [31:51] as early as we did to buy another stock up that was kind of four years in. Got it. So I saw for example Axle Springer which is you know more kind of like the corporate. So it was never I want to be an entrepreneur journey. It was like $46 million. So watching board members from the early investments are [19:38] who now runs Good Water but was originally Kleiner and then Eric [19:42] from Kleiner and theyre both experts at product market set. Read More: Sujal Patel On Selling His First Business For $2.6 Billion And Now Raising $108 Million From Jeff Bezos And Others To Improve Medical Diagnostics. So M&A are strategic [33:48]. Two sided marketplaces are so difficult. 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Your third month is getting kind of diligence done and getting the wires in to the door. Alejandro: Really, really nice to have you here and excited for the chat that we have ahead here. Got it. Got it. I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. So today, we have another founder and another one that is quite successful in their own paths. And so as you mature you look for a different kind of investor and that naturally tends to happen. Alejandro: So I guess like I have one thing to follow up on this. Saying that, if you do have multiple term sheets the second point is of course, like before you get to liquidity, revenue is irrelevant and if revenue gets in the way of bringing either the consumer on to your platform or the supply side person on to your platform, you should not be trying to charge. I mean I think at seed round its like an [26:02]. He was with HBS 10 years ago. Culture is everything and so investing in people making sure I as the CEO spend a lot of time as much as possible with people who dont report to me is absolutely critical and that is ultimately like the fabric on how most companies are run. One is I wouldnt be too pressured about it too early. Subscribe: Google Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | RSS | More. Over time, its great to be able to bring in your team. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah, sure. Thats your job. Youre right that is wrong advice. Russell Middleton Co-Founder. Got it. We envisioned a world in which a renter can find apartments, book in [tour 10:18], turn up the [10:21] and if they want to take the apartment pre-qualify, leave a deposit and book the apartment. I knew the CEO for a while. You shameless have to mine your network and I think all CEOs and entrepreneurs have to find that edge of how did they meet one of these investors, how did they meet someone that knows them. And so back to your point, yes, we want investors who are supportive of the fact that we didnt try to monetize the platform for the first three years because it would have created a barrier to entry. And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? And at one point I just told one I just feel like I want to step on the egg and shoot the chicken because it was so repetitive. You just get to this kind of motion of you all feel the same and you kind of pull in the same direction. There was no book [01:41]. So when you go in to a fundraising in terms of preparation the most important thing is that your last six months are great and your most important metrics are all growing really nicely so kind of five, six months in a row that is a fantastic story to tell to an investor. Could you meet him? And so whereas that doesnt guarantee any success we obviously have to have really good numbers and a really good story to tell them. And then at business school, I think the single biggest thing I learned through the case study method which is how they teach it at Harvard Business School but I think its true. I really enjoyed it and great stuff. How did you find these investors? Anthemos Georgiades is co-founder & CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry. So we bought them. Saying that, I have connections through both business school and previous people that have gone through BCG venture capital and most of your listeners and entrepreneurs will know so much of this is about like getting warm introductions to VCs so I did have a couple of cheats to get in through the network or through the BCG network. You know its interesting that you mentioned the chicken and the egg. Youre exactly right. And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. Got it. So what is the best way, Anthemos, for people that are listening to reach out and say hi? It has to be me and thats how I started the company six years ago after business school. Thats just part of the game. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. It was at the time Pat Mapper example almost the same size on consumer but now Zumper is much bigger but we called it like a cheat and your job as the founder is to identify like vertical cheats where overnight you become bigger than your competitors. Alejandro: So I guess in just to like follow up on that, what in your mind and obviously in what youve seen creates really that magical relationship between cofounders? Like what have you seen that really works? They were super lean team of under five people and its been a great deal for Zumper like we have one backend, one sales team and then two consumer platforms. I mean if you could give some kind of like tips you know both fronts it would be really fantastic. And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? A lot of that is in the bank. Your second month you spend getting term sheets and documents signed. She was our original CPO and after the series A, she moved on to roller, another company and we promoted someone internally to CPO. Got it. So paradoxically, I dont think the core DNA of a companys culture is built at ski tracks or offsite. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time. They are brilliant about. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. We want investors who look at $100 million in revenue as table stakes but they wont agree to a billion. A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. To give you odds, at the seed stage and the series A stage of growth cuts, all about supply side where a two sided marketplace chicken an egg, on day zero you have no renters and no landlords, how do you solve that? I didnt think that either of them originally. Prices can change quickly! Were going to charge you per lead or for the smaller landlords we charge them if theyre [11:15] for the transaction. And then now your job at five, six years in with a team of a hundred with higher and amazing executive team who are all better at doing their jobs than you would ever be and so your job is almost as a CEO is to like hire yourself out of a job where you hire people, where you look at them and you think, Wow, I cant believe you report to me. So in the first two years, Zumper is now [07:52] $90 million in capital. Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? They may not understand marketplace as well as you but they may be able to bring a brilliant way of thinking about how to bring the supply on [30:20]. At college in the UK, Ive had like multiple [00:58] renting apartments. Every fantastic company has had hundreds of nos on the way to kind of huge outcomes and you just cant take it personally. In the early days you as the CEO you are the fundraiser, you are the effective CFO, youre the head of sales and you kind of have to do the whole thing. So I guess in your guys case, how do you deal with the egos and then more importantly how did you define the responsibilities early on so that you kind of have that healthy culture going on? Got it. Well, first of all, your point about quashing the egg and shooting the chicken. It was like $46 million. And I mean its quite a few cofounders. You always have more nos that more yeses in fundraising but it was ultimately about just hustling my network as much as possible. 77% of you were interested in a @zumper flex living pass 1.5 yrs ago Since then we - Added 500K+ flex listings - Launched a search UX for flex rentals We're now launching an MVP of Zumper Pass - a one & done subscription. And then at business school, I think the single biggest thing I learned through the case study method which is how they teach it at Harvard Business School but I think its true. All of it is going to be important and it will come out at the right stage. So you kind of just have to [25:29] but just to be clear yeah, we had far more nos than yeses at the seed round. So paradoxically, I dont think the core DNA of a companys culture is built at ski tracks or offsite. It is ultimately the culture. They wanted to close apartments like they book a hotel and so took the status of like 35 different apartments we leased using the technology in San Francisco to VCs and said, Hey, were really going to rebuild all of this but heres some data that shows this really can work at scale, and thats how we raised the first million dollars from some of the names that you mentioned. Yeah. How many listings do we have on the site? But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. It is not suppose to be easy. Got it. Since 2012, Anth has grown Zumper to over 100 employees and raised $90 million in venture capital for the company. So today, we have another founder and another one that is quite successful in their own paths. anthemos georgiades net worthperpetual futures binance. And frankly, the process is a pain in the ass. So Anthemos, whats the business model here? Pat Mapper caters to 25 and under and kind of big college populations. Alejandro: Got it. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Were going to charge you per lead or for the smaller landlords we charge them if theyre [11:15] for the transaction. Its a good question. How do you take a company with those tractions, 10 million in revenue. So I wouldnt be too picky early. I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. So we tell the small landlords, Hey, dont just advertise in Zumper. They are brilliant about. Rocketreach finds email, phone & social media for 450M+ professionals. I have no experience doing that. It happened but I wouldnt say its like an obvious part. So I think three months is an efficient round. It happened but I wouldnt say its like an obvious part. Because I speak with a ton of founders that are perhaps opening up the possibility of bringing on corporations and I think that you need to really do it right. Were very clear with Axle Springer that we have a lot of consumer scale so a lot of people use our platform on a monthly basis but were still building the [21:55]. Thats quite motivating for people. Yeah. So I guess how did that consulting experience shape up your approach in terms of like tackling problems and the entrepreneurial journey itself? It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. I think Id say forget everything you think you know and everything, your education [38:28]. Thats quite motivating for people. Terms & Conditions! So I think as your company matures, you look for investors that have something that you dont have and so for us, were not yet doing $100 million in revenue. A lot of that is in the bank. When you look your cofounders, your team in the eye and you know theyre ready to go and theyre resilient and they come back in to build and try the next thing and youve kind of worked out together this is part of the game. So in the first two years, Zumper is now [07:52] $90 million in capital. The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. So I guess without further ado, Anthemos Georgiades from Zumper, welcome aboard. And were just a little earlier than obviously a public company so our gross is spikier. And so back to your point, yes, we want investors who are supportive of the fact that we didnt try to monetize the platform for the first three years because it would have created a barrier to entry. So Zumper is the vision for the company is to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Budget in my opinion perhaps should be allocated to something else. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. He was with HBS 10 years ago. I was also doing, Ive been doing marketplaces for I think like 10 years now and I remember in the last company, I would go and meet with investors and they kept asking me for the chicken and the egg. I mean your job moves from doing jobs in the first few years. Im the CEO and Ive always felt that it was my responsibility to do the fundraising. And did you diversify this responsibility with the other cofounders or was there one of you guys that has always been leading the chart on the financing side? A lot of it was completely bottom up. Anthemos Georgiades, Zumper, European Founder, International Founders, Marketplace The process of renting apartments hasn't changed since Craigslist was introduced. Im so glad I did it. But was drawn in to it just to solve a problem as I think so many entrepreneurs are. So tell me your story a little bit here, Anthemos. So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? I mean I called it like a cheat [33:33] my team. Got it. Yeah. And as you know as and your listeners know, youre going to get a lot of nos on the way.
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